Msg # 8680   
Date: 26 May 94  11:33:00
From: Bob Johnstone
  To: Chris Rensing
Subj: RE: NEW TO THE AREA
____________________________________________________________________________

 >BJ> Yes, I know it is the 90's but all men
 >BJ> are NOT in the 90's, many were raised by mothers who taught them to
 >BJ> run away from those who chase them.  Most men I have worked with in
 >BJ> sessions WANTED intimacy and commitment, but at their pace.
 >
 >  When you say that there mothers "taught them" to run away from those
 >  who chase them -- do you mean that they taught them by example?

 Many by example, others with words also.  Many mothers have taught sons and
daughters that women who chase after men, are not "ladies" or even worse.
Sometimes only indirectly, by the remarks they made about women who were "man
chasers or worse" in a tone of voice that was derogetory.  Sometimes they
could be talking with a friend, in front of children they do not believe are
old enough to understand.  The brain records all it hears, later in life it
is there to be scanned along with all the other information about women.
Such experiences create conclusions about men or women for the opposite sex
that create many problems for them later in relationships.  If the mother was
divorced, statements about men and their father are recorded in the brain.

 Even worse, if a son was named say George, after his father or grandfather,
and they were talked about by anyone in a derogatary manner, the subconscious
functions, as if this son has all the same problems or personality of the
father or grandfather.  Just as if the people talking were talking about the
son.  Of course the same idea applies if it is a daughter named after someone
else.

 > And what about the father's role in this. From what my friend has said,
 > and what I have read about this -- the father often emotionally abandones
 > the son.

 Many believe this, even therapists, but if we think logically, the father
did not emotionally abandon the son, but was many times suffering from the
same problems the son was, so could not offer emotional support.  It can go
back for many generations.  The problem is that parents spend much more time
learning to make a living, and very little learning how to raise children.
Most wind up raising them in the same manner they were raised, some times
with slight improvement, sometimes worse depending on the problems their
childhood created.

 When people begin realizing that raising children is much more important
than a career for EITHER the mother or father and spend time learning how to
do so, the children raised in such families will not be drug users or
criminals.  Of course the court system does not improve relationships of
children with their father.  It is much more difficult to support a family
living in two residences, than in one.  It is almost impossible to give a
child a fathers support when the father may see the child only once a week.
Just like a therapist cant really do the whole job in one or two hours, no
father can be an effective one unless living in the home.

 > Creating his fear of abandonment, which he carries on into his
 > relationships with women as an adult. That fear becomes so strong,
 > that it becomes irrational.

 It is also entirely possible, that such fears have nothing to do with his
father.  Many times fears of abandonment come from the birth experience
itself, and that is MUCH MORE traumatic than most individuals have ever
dreamed.  Everyone talks about the pain a woman can experience in child
birth. No one talks about the pain a child experiences.  It is for many, the
most traumatic one they will have in their life.  They have lived in this
secure environment for nine months.  Like an astronaut in space, their entire
life support system depends on that capsule.  Then they are physically and
painfully forced out of it into a world which is so terrifying it would be
like a space capsule exploded in space......

 Forced into a world where temperatures are much colder, with bright lights
and loud noises, and then many times the first voices they hear are of the
doctors and nurses.  They get "imprinted" on these voices, and then
subconsciously believe these are their parents voices.  Days later they are
taken out of the hospital by their parents, and may never hear them again.
Were they "abandoned" by those who cared for them during their first
experience after birth, many who "relive" that experience in hypnosis
discover such feelings and the feelings discharge so they never feel
"abandoned" again.

 For this reason, one of the tapes I have is about the birth experience.

 >BJ> They tend to stay with a girlfriend until they find they dont have
 >BJ> much in common, and then the novelty wears off.
 >
 >  Your opinion above, is possible. I wouldn't know, since I've never
 >  personally been in a relationship where the "novelty wore off." But
 >  it seems to me that these men lack the emotional ability to feel
 >  concern or love for these women, of whom they become bored. And I
 >  believe, that that is why they come across as being such cold fishes.

 If you only experiences with men, have been like that, that is what you
would have as an opinion.  Mine has been much different, men congregate in
various places, if a woman looks for men where those who are only interested
in sports hang out, she will not find a lot of men there who "feel concern or
love for these woman."  If a woman finds a place where men who are more
sensitive hang out, she will find a man who does feel concern or love.  But
this does not apply to men alone, there are many women who feel no "concern
or love for men."  They look only for the things money can buy, and when they
find a man who can purchase them, they stop looking.  Then they wonder why
they have a relationship with a man who is only interested in making a lot of
money or spends so many hours at work.

  Women dont play professional football or baseball (tho they may in the
future) men whose only interest is POWER or sports which require a lot of
strenth, are not as interested in women or their activities.  My only
interest in sports were in swimming and skating. Both were sports in which
women participated, and I even enjoyed them more, because of the interplay
with and competition with women.  I was one of the top ten speed skaters in
Boston in my day but not interested enough for National compitition.  There
were women who could skate as fast or better than me, who were tops in their
field.  Women in National compitition, who could lap me.   I was a pretty
good figure skater, but there were MANY women who were MUCH better than I
was, one of them was a person I dated.  It made me quite proud to share her
experiences.

  You couldnt pay me to watch a professional game, but put the olympic
skating, and you cant tear my wife and me away from the television.  We also
bought the tapes on olympic skating events, but not the others.  One more
thing we have in common.  [grin]  My attitude about professional sports is
that, I would not go to a factory more than once to watch them make chocolate
or airplanes and why should I watch someone else who does their job.  We
enjoy going to high school games, and watching youngsters play basketball,
who are so excited about what they are doing, they are about to jump out of
their skins.  Much of that is lost in many professional sports, I find them
boring.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: For PTSD or Emotions & Physical HELP 714-525-1706 (1:10/25)

PATH: 10/25 103/501 121 3615/50 138/103 1 352/3 410
03